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Event: Katy Darby and Ellen Dibsdall @ Deptford Lounge

The Whores’ Asylum is Katy Darby‘s first novel. Foyles Bookshop describes the novel as “a terrific slice of Victorian Gothic, full of roguery and romance, as students vow to help the fallen women of Oxford’s seediest locales”. The book will appear in paperback as The Unpierced Heart later this year. Her work has been read on BBC Radio, and published in various magazines and anthologies. Katy has received the David Higham Award. As well as teaching Short Story and Novel Writing at City University, Katy co-runs Liars’ League, a monthly short story reading night in Central London. Lewisham Lit Fest’s organiser Rachel will be asking her about all this, plus dangerous burglaries.

We will open the evening by introducing Ellen Dibsdall, whose work has caught the eye of librarians elsewhere. Ellen was recently crowned Young Writer of the Year in her home town, Sandwich in Kent, and this evening will be her first reading in London.

This event takes place on Tuesday 19 June, 7pm start, at Deptford Lounge. Please book your place for this free event, so we know how many chairs to put out!

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Event: London Reads @ Deptford Lounge

If you enjoyed last year’s free event hosted by Londonist, with authors of Londony books Iphgenia Baal, Mark Mason and Paul Talling, you might be interested to hear we’re doing it all again.

Different authors of course: this time we’ve invited Christopher Fowler, who writes the Bryant & May mystery novels; Tom Jones, the man behind Tired of London, Tired of Life; and Craig Taylor, whose book Londoners has had everyone raving.

Matt Brown of Londonist hosts again, at Deptford Lounge (which is licensed to sell booze, woo!). There’ll be time for questions and book signings. And of course, it’s all free – but please do let us know if you’re coming by ‘booking‘, so we know how many chairs to put out.

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World Book Night: Manor House Library

Gemma Seltzer / image by Rachel Cherry

Instead of a dedicated Festival this year, we’re working with Lewisham Libraries to put on events throughout the year. The next one we’ve had a finger in is the World Book Night party at Manor House Library.

World Book Night is a celebration of reading where thousands of books are given away free by authorised ‘givers’. Some of those givers will be at Manor House: come and discover which books they have (we can guarantee some copies of Kazuo Ishiguro’s heartbreaking The Remains of the Day).

There’s also an opportunity to meet and hear from special guests – Gemma Seltzer and Bernadette Russell. There’ll be courtesy refreshments and we hope that each guest brings along a ‘used book’ they are happy to gift or swap in addition from those gifted through the World Book Night promotion.

Gemma Seltzer is a London-based writer and literary blogger. Originally conceived as a daily fiction blog, Speak to Strangers, which Gemma will read from, is a funny, provocative and elegant series of 100 hundred-word stories, which chart a journey across our capital through its inhabitants.

Bernadette Russell runs White Rabbit with Gareth Brierley, performing, writing and producing storytelling variety night Are You Sitting Comfortably? as well as creating theatre, cabaret and installations. She is presently amusing and occasionally bemusing strangers with a current project 366 Days of Kindness. Her brand of entertainment was described by a BBC reviewer as ‘exhilarating… it’s hard to describe and it can’t be bottled.’

This event is free but the library asks that places are pre-booked on 020 8314 7794.

6.45 for 7pm start – 8.30pm Monday 23 April
World Book Night Party

Manor House Library
Old Road
SE13 5SY


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About London

Authors of three London books – Iphgenia Baal (The Hardy Tree), Mark Mason (Walk the Lines) and Paul Talling (Derelict London, London”s Lost Rivers) – came to Lewisham Library to talk to editor Matt Brown.


The library’s so full, we’re having to put out lots more seats – the most popular event so far, it appears! Should be starting very soon now

Tonight, @Londonist co-editor Matt Brown talks to three authors of London-centric books

First to speak tonight is Mason, whose book Walk The Lines chronicles his time spent walking the length of every Tube line in London.

Mason was inspired by Phyllis Pearsall, who compiled the original A-Z map and walked every street in London. Wanted to do something similar.

Mason’s other inspiration came when stuck on the Tube – he was staring at the Tube map thinking “I could’ve walked this journey faster…!”

Mason recounts some of the things he saw on his walk, overheard conversation snippets and London and tube trivia picked up around the city.

For instance, the Monument is 202ft tall as it’s 202ft from start of Great Fire; and columns at St. Pancras were hardened with horse urine!

Second author to speak is Paul Talling, who’s really enjoyed stumbling across lost rivers around London, then researching them for his book.

Talling saw similarly titled book from the ’60s about lost London rivers, but it was quite academic; he wanted something portable, with pics

Talling enjoys taking people on walks exploring lost rivers and derelict London – with lengthy pub breaks wherever possible!

Talling selects an extract to read aimed at locals, about Deptford Dockyard, which ultimately proved too shallow & is now Convoy’s Wharf

Baal introduces her novel, which she feels captures “everything London runs on”. It’s about when the railways came to London.

The cheapest land to buy to build railways on was cemetery land. Baal’s book centres on a man with the job of arranging the great digging-up

Baal reads a short extract from her novel, then host Matt opens up the floor to questions from the audience.

First Q, to Mason and Talling, who’ve both wandered a lot of London: is there anywhere they wouldn’t want to go back to?

Talling says there isn’t – while some may suggest Woolwich, say, he’s not worried: “I’m a big boy – & there’s nothing wrong with SE London!”

Mason also perhaps pleases his SE London audience, by suggesting that he most disliked NW London, which he found parts of very depressing.

Next Q relates to London’s history as connected villages. Baal says all Londoners create their own village these days but not location-based

More Tube trivia from Mason: the first all-female-staffed tube station was Maida Vale – it opened during WWI, in 1915.

In response to another Q, the panel discusses the area around King’s Cross/St. Pancras, its safety, and the future of the big gas cylinders

Baal says her book needn’t have been set in London – it was “just a hook” for the story, unlike the others’ books of course.

Talling describes his motivation for writing his books as almost entirely for his own enjoyment – here just loves exploring derelict London

Mason talks about how his line-walking adventures have helped him form a strong relationship with the city

Mason thinks people not from London originally can form stronger bonds w/ the city; Baal, Londoner from birth, disagrees: “I own this city!”

Another great event – thanks to our panel. You know there’s serious London passion present when authors argue over who loves the city most!

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Tall Tales

After another hiatus (here’s a tip for would-be literary festival organisers: don’t immediately start working 60 hour weeks when your festival ends) we’re back to filling you in on what happened during any events you couldn’t get to. This is an easy one – it’s mainly photos. It’s hard to livetweet a night of comedy stories without giving away the gags, which would be even more of a shame since many of the performers at Tall Tales are taking their TT work to Radio 4.

If you liked Tall Tales, it takes place regularly on the final Thursday of every second month at the Good Ship in Kilburn.

Tall Tales host Robert Hudson

Hannah Jones, of the Why Miss Jones blog

Bolton poet Mike Westcott with his perhaps-not-entirely-true Wikipedia entry on Julian the Apostate

Toby Davies telling half a story about half a storey

Ian Leslie introduces an excerpt from Ernest Hemingway's brief time as an agony aunt

John Finnemore and Robert Hudson perform the roles taken by Daniel Rigby and Stephen Fry for Radio 4's Warhorses of Letters

By the way, you can buy all four episodes of Warhorses of Letters – cos you’ve missed it on Radio 4 now – on iTunes.

Susannah Pearse sang some hilarious songs, including one imploring Mr Rochester to ditch Jane Eyre

John Finnemore doing a sketch from his recent Radio 4 series


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Skeptics in the Pub

Science is cool. This is evident from the way Skeptics in the Pub’s Sid Rodrigues and guests Jenny Rohn (Experimental Heart, The Honest Look), Manjit Kumar (Quantum: Einstein, Bohr and the Great Debate about the Nature of Reality) and Michael Brooks (13 Things That Don”t Make Sense) got one of the biggest crowds of the Festival…

L-R: Manjit Kumar, Michael Brooks, Jenny Rohn and Sid Rodrigues

Why become a science writer? Michael Brooks says he had a short attention span – more interested in friends’ lab work than his own.

Brooks also felt out of place in research+academia (and had a ‘challenging’ supervisor relationship) so decided to try out science writing.

Manjit Kumar started out as a philosopher then moved on to physics. He wanted to combine both interests and defend science against naysayers

Jenny Rohn is a practising scientist (her childhood ambition) as well as a novelist.

Inspired by Cantor’s Dilemma, she founded to promote novels about scientists: after years of searching, only found 120!

Surprised by scarcity of fiction about scientists despite their grand goals and interesting personalities, Rohn decided to write her own.

Hollywood focuses on disaster potential of science; Panel thinks it’s natural given their style of story-telling – goes back to Frankenstein

Brooks thinks comedians (eg @DaraOBriain @MrChrisAddison)’re making science cool; Kumar unsure scientists are cool too, @profbriancox aside!

Brooks argues Climate-gate not all bad. It showed the humanity of scientists, expressing passion and anger which people actually warm to.

Rohn: fiction distills society’s anxieties and paints a picture of them – e.g. recently we’re seeing more climate disaster stories.

Kumar’s book Quantum is driven by the human stories of scientists who made discoveries: inspired by a 1927 photo, a “Who’s Who of science”.

Brooks: Human stories behind ‘discoveries’ which fail are fascinating, e.g. people who thought they discovered cold fusion.

Double standard in society: don’t mind artists and musicians taking drugs, but idea of scientists doing same to boost creativity is taboo.

Rohn’s The Honest Look inspired by a job she took in a company developing ‘magic’ cancer drug. What if a newcomer realised they were wrong?

Host tells anecdote: scientist distracted from giving presentation by witnessing colleague next door spilling acid on himself and stripping!

Discussion of bad science. Brooks: Science advocates shouldn’t just mock homeopathy users or the religious. Lacks understanding of benefits.

Rohn frustrated when people don’t believe basic, proven biological principles, e.g. detox fans who forget humans have livers for a reason!

Audience Q about how to visualise quantum mechanics. Kumar: follow the maths and *don’t* visualise concepts, as it can be deceptive.

Kumar: however, teachers lie to students all the time – their models (e.g. solar atom model) grow in complexity as understanding increases.

Audience Q: does Lablit include sci-fi? Rohn: No, that’s popular enough without extra publicity. Want books based in real science.

Rohn: fiction is a good medium for expressing emotions inherent in science: many arguments, and much of science is “heart-breaking failure”.


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Fiona Rule’s illustrated talk on London’s docklands

This is how the history talk went down – Fiona Rule‘s written a book about the history of the docklands and came armed with pictures…

Tonight’s talk is by Fiona Rule, who’s written a book called London’s Docklands: A History of the Lost Quarter.

When constructed in 1880, the Royal Albert was the largest dock in the world – over a mile long

Fiona’s interest in Docklands began when a colleague told her with passion about the old docks where his dad had worked

Her colleague had expected to work in docks but his prescient dad arranged printing apprenticeship saying there was “no future” in the docks

Fiona contrasts pic of docks in use with view now from ExCeL over Royal Victoria dock, of disused factory & luxury flats. No future indeed!

London’s original Roman docks are now buried under Cannon Street station.

Elizabeth I opened docks along Thames, w/different quays for different products. Port of London contributed to city’s reputation worldwide.

Docks were built at Tilbury to ease congestion in Thames. Wharves & docks of Port of London occupied huge areas & employed lots of E London.

In the end, though, it was the advent of huge container ships that spelt the end of the Port of London – they were simply too big for it.

Fiona is now telling the story of the docklands industrial action of the late nineteenth century, over humiliating pay and work practices.

In summer 1889, walk-out turned into Port-wide strike, with dock-workers demanding improved conditions. Owners said demands’d ruin the docks

By Sept, strike fund was running low and dockers were worried about carrying on; owners convinced if they acquiesced, more strikes’d follow.

In the end, worldwide solidarity won the day, as donations poured in from Australia’s dockers, inspired by the story of the London strike

Dockers saw they could now keep strike up indefinitely, so the employers relented and the dockers returned to work with improved conditions.

Fiona describes dockers’ action as a watershed moment in industrial relations, as both owners & workers realised collective power of latter.

Answering a Q from floor, Fiona describes how dockers would get tip-offs about which pubs to buy people drinks in to get selected for work!

There was quite a drinking culture in the docks, she adds, which explains why there are (or were) many large pubs in the area

And with that, in the spirit of the old docks, everyone’s off to the pub (perhaps) after another great talk; thanks very much to Fiona Rule!

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Samantha Harvey and Jake Wallis Simons

Right; a weekend to recover and we can carry on telling you what happened during the Festival. Here’s how the chat between literary fiction authors Samantha Harvey and Jake Wallis Simons went down at the Cafe of Good Hope:

L-R: host Rachel Holdsworth, Jake Wallis Simons, Samantha Harvey

All proceeds from tonight’s event will go to the Jimmy Mizen Foundation: The café we’re in was set up in Jimmy’s memory.

Tonight’s event is underway, with Booker longlisted novelist Samantha Harvey (The Wilderness) & Jake Wallis Simons (The English German Girl)

Harvey introduces her book, The Wilderness, which is about an Alzheimer’s sufferer called Jake. The book’s style mirrors Jake’s mental state

Harvey reads a short extract from her book, giving a taste of how it works, as conflicting segments of narrative spark confusion on the page

Harvey describes her book as a mystery, as readers must piece together the story from the suffering protagonist’s (mis)remembered fragments.

Harvey talks about the research she did: she did meet some Alzheimer’s sufferers but didn’t interview them or directly use their experiences

Harvey describes herself as “someone who’s interested in how humans work” and says the research into Alzheimer’s is therefore v interesting

Jake Wallis Simons introduces his book, The English German Girl, centred on a Jewish girl in Germany, starting as Hitler comes to power.

The central character in Simons’ novel travels to England on the Kindertransport –

Host Rachel is amazed how detailed the novel is in its coverage of contemporary Berlin and the Kindertransport. Lots of research evident!

Simons was also drawn to the Kindertransport as a topic because there were so many people who’d been involved still around to interview.

It’s clear Simons wanted to be as accurate as possible as he describes how much material he’s read, archives he’s visited etc

Most of the secondary characters in The English German Girl are actually real people who existed, and a glossary at the back gives more info

Simons says it’s useful, actually: without the readers knowing about the Holocaust, it would almost have been too harrowing for them to read

Harvey agrees: since we know her protagonist will die, the ending is clear and she’s able to focus her efforts on getting there well

In Harvey’s next novel, she tries to imagine Socrates living in the modern world – “quite a domestic tale”, apparently!

Talking about person and tense now. Simons doesn’t mind present tense in books: “it’s just like past tense, but a bit sooner”.

Both books in 3rd person, despite clear central character. Harvey says she’s a bit of a first-person-phobic: “I should probably get over it”

Despite both books covering potentially depressing topics these are quite life-affirming books; Simons liked Kindertransport for that reason

Simons’ next novel, a thriller, is v different from his last; so much so he’s dropped the “Wallis” part of his name to avoid disappointment!

Q&A time. What reactions have authors had from people with personal experiences of Alzheimer’s or Kindertransport?

Audience member says she’s glad she came along tonight as hearing Harvey talk about & read from the book has reassured her about reading it.

Simons was touched when daughter of people who came here on Kindertransport said his book helped her understand what her parents experienced

Harvey’s also had good feedback, but does recount the tale of someone who didn’t think she had the right to write about Alzheimer’s

Audience member with familial Alzheimer’s experience praises the question “What reason to be anxious?” in the extract Harvey read earlier.

Moving exchange between author and would-be reader, who’s started the book a number of times but sees it as an “unexploded bomb” by her bed.

Tonight’s keen audience has enough questions to overrun by 10min before Rachel brings another enjoyable, thought-provoking event to a close.

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Double celebrations at St Swithun’s

More photos to come soon, honest, but here’s an interlude to tell you about an event happening immediately after the Literary Festival ends. We’ve been at St Swithun’s church hall a lot, and on Saturday and Sunday the church itself is holding a double celebration: of the 400th anniversary of the King James Bible, and the 100th anniversary of their beautiful reredos.

On Saturday, there’s matins with the community choir at 11am, followed by storytelling and art for young people with Sarah Rundle and Katrin Salyers (12.30pm-5pm). Then from 6pm you can hear readings from and inspired by the King James Bible – with a cocktail in hand. Terribly civilised.

On Sunday the church is open from 12pm for youto have a look round (and it is a beautiful building; we’ve traipsed through carrying microphone stands rather a lot this week), followed by poems, stories and music between 6pm-8pm.

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The story so far…

If you haven’t seen, we’re live tweeting a lot of the events over at @LewishamLitFest (thanks to @bitoclass who takes over the account and has a much stronger signal at St Swithun’s than us!). Here’s what’s been happening so far…

Firestation Book Swap

More cakes have arrived: impressive baking, Lewisham! Firestation Book Swap starts in a short while, with guests Evie Wyld and John Harding.

Host Scott Pack introduces the idea of this evening, the three Bs: banter, baked goods and book-swapping, then brings on the authors

Evie Wyld is the first author to offer a book to swap. She offers up her copy of Things We Didn’t See Coming by Steven Amsterdam

After a bidding war in the audience as everyone talks up their books, Wyld opts for a copy of Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance

John Harding’s the next guest author; also swaps a book – somewhat reluctantly but the audience forgives him as he baked delicious brownies!

Discussion kicks off by considering Wyld’s first novel, After The Fire A Still Small Voice, in which the protagonist is male. Hard to write?

Book Swap panel L-R: Scott Pack, Robert Hudson, Evie Wyld and John Harding

Wyld says not hard to write as a man & guest host Robert Hudson agrees: just another type of character different from yourself to get into.

After more chat about writing (while your live-tweeter sought signal!), Pack delved into his basket of random non-literary Qs from audience…

Questions included “Cats or dogs?” (Wyld dogs, Harding cats) and “Who’s your favourite Today programme combo?” Original!

Pack praises Wyld’s idea of putting ‘deleted scenes’ from her novel online. She says it’s partly to shed light on writing process – and fun!

Authors talk about where they call home. Wyld loves her place in south London: “Tried living in Australia; it’s nice, but it’s not Peckham!”

Question: “What is the best bus route?” Wyld likes the 76: “it takes a long time to go from Peckham to Liverpool St, but it gets you there!”

Scariest experience? Harding was out running & was hit really hard; thought he’d been attacked. In fact a squirrel’d fallen out of a tree.

“Were you a tall or short child?” Wyld: “I was a fat child – so kind of tall but width-ways?”

After some more Qs – “you won’t get incisive probing like this at any other literary event” – Pack draws things to a close

Independent Magazines

L-R: Darren Atwater from Snipe, Alex Musson from Ambit, Martin Bax from Ambit, host Rachel Holdsworth and Matt Haynes from Smoke

Ambit started when its editor realised litho printing was a relatively accessible way to print an arty magazine

Snipe’s editor ran a similar publication in Vancouver; on moving to London he wanted an alternative to Time Out less aimed at rich tourists!

Smoke’s editor used to run record labels, which he got into from fanzines in the ’80s. Smoke’s like a fanzine but about the city, not bands.

Comedy magazine Mustard started because its editor missed doing print design, and wanted to do a project with friends.

Alex from Mustard thinks it’s harder to get art contributors than writers, partly because weak art stands out in a way weak writing doesn’t.

Alex got lucky at the start when chance mtg with Terry Gilliam secured Mustard a first interviewee: easier to get future big names then too!

Matt from Smoke gets sent lots of writing for inclusion in the magazine, much good but rather too much of the poetry, er, not quite so good!

Alex from Mustard asks if the others also find the quality of submissions is inversely proportional to the self-confidence of the submitter!

Talk moves to distribution. Matt from Smoke explains how complicated the process is to get it into the big bookshops, who won’t deal direct.

Once took Smoke directly to shops but big bookshops’ insistence on using distributors & distributors’ insistence on exclusivity stopped this

Shops like WHSmith require payment for counter-spots but Smoke got left there by staff unused to personal deliveries

Onto extracurricular activities: Ambit has branched out into events, with one coming up next wk, which help promote the mag & reward readers

Smoke’s never been interested in a web presence, but has just recently begun experimenting with some online spin-offs, like a character blog

Smoke also produced a board game last year, based around a Soho pub crawl – “I’ve just always liked board games,” says Matt

Snipe’s had a web version from the start, but plans to ramp up the coverage for next year’s mayoral elections, and hopes to run some events.

Editors agree they do print despite web as they love the finished printed product. Matt says he likes the finite focus on filling 52 pages.

Darren of Snipe says length’s a dividing line between web & print: nice to sit down with a long read, but short listings etc fine on a phone

Q&A time. What advice would eds give someone thinking of starting a mag? Apart from “Don’t!”, advice includes doing it for love, not money

For Books’ Sake

For Books’ Sake editor Jane Bradley, hosting, introduces the panel. First up, Karen McLeod is going to read part of one of her short stories

Karen McLeod reading

McLeod’s story, Never Can Say Goodbye, was a charming and witty tale of a lesbian couple on honeymoon, from this book:

Next, Ellen Lindner is talking about her mainly self-published comics, while showing pages from them on the big screen.

Lindner, from US but now in New Cross, is trying to revive “comics culture” in UK through various initiatives to promote & distribute comics

Last speaker: children’s author/illustrator Sarah McIntyre. She gets children to draw aliens as “you can’t do it wrong”!

McIntyre shows slides of book illustration process & says when she shows kids they often think she manually illustrates all copies of book!

McIntyre’s children’s book about sheep & rabbit Vern&Lettuce is set in Pickle Rye: “thought it’d be fun to take Peckham & put animals in it”

In Vern & Lettuce’s parallel London McIntyre happily drew a Tube escalator on which it’s permitted to slide down the bit between the flights

Another of McIntyre’s books is Morris the Mankiest Monster, which looks pretty disgusting – so all the children utterly love it, of course!

Panel now discussing how they came to be doing what they now do. McLeod used to be more of a performer, incl dressing as a huge fish finger!

McIntyre used to draw picturebooks but was put off comics by too many women portrayed as bimbos – but then Lindner showed her *good* comics!

McLeod worries sometimes when she sees people read her novel’s synopsis & put back on shelf that they may be being put off by lesbian plot.

On the other hand, she doesn’t want to second-guess people’s motivations, nor change what she wants to write about too fundamentally

Meanwhile, McIntyre has to remind herself that her audience of children’s more focussed on interesting stories & funny details than artistry

Lindner says Kindle’s 150dpi, black-and-white screen doesn’t lend itself to comics but the iPad and its rumoured future Amazon competitor do

Joe Dunthorne and Lee Rourke

Lee Rourke and Joe Dunthorne

Rourke opens by describing his novel The Canal, about a man one morning deciding to walk to a canal, instead of to work – and what ensues.

Rourke’s now reading from his novel – a thoughtful extract as his protagonist’s mind wanders while alone at the book’s titular canal

Rourke’s character muses, in defence of boredom, that those who’re not bored are “merely lost in superfluous activity: fashion, television…”

Rourke’s extract finishes with a remembered tale of loving and loathing from the protagonist’s schooldays.

Dunthorne’s chosen extract deals entertainingly with educating commune children in the ways of television advertising (and disbelieving it).

In the novel’s commune, the done thing during commercial breaks is to mute and use AdGuard – a square of shower curtain pulled across the TV

Discussion starts after the extracts as host Rachel asks Lee Rourke how he researched his novel. Yes, he has spent a lot of time at a canal!

Rourke’s novel’s mostly fictitious but does include some vignettes of things he did see while at the canal

Rourke took a lot of inspiration for the philosophising in his book from Heidegger:

Dunthorne’s interested in communal living, but not into “spiritual stuff, crystal healing…”, so he avoided too much of that in his novel.

Rachel suggests both authors’ books are more about character development than plot; Dunthorne jokes “not through choice – plot’s too hard!”

Discussion turns to voice used in authors’ books: Rourke used a first-person narrative in The Canal as it needed it for a sense of immediacy

Dunthorne opted for first-person narrative in Submarine as much of comedy came from the gap between what narrator says & truth reader infers

Dunthorne found it a challenge to switch to writing in third person for Wild Abandon but relished the freedom it gave to jump between people

Rourke’s written both fiction & non-fiction; prefers fiction. Dunthorne does prose & poetry; prefers whichever he’s not doing at the time!

Dunthorne was offered chance to write script for film of Submarine, but he’d just written the book and didn’t want to write the story again!

Dunthorne describes surreal experience of wandering on-set at the film shoot and seeing thoughts made up in his bedroom 6yrs ago played out!

The Canal’s in development as a film now too, with Rourke as co-writer. Took a lot of mental adjustment to rewrite novel as film script.

Rourke’s scripting started weakly, but he’s v happy with how it’s turned out. Dunthorne: hard to be objective & drop bits you wanted in book

Dunthorne visited communes when researching Wild Abandon, but met some reticence: many journos’ve visited to write uncomplimentary features.

There’s plenty more coming up – but it’s much more fun to be here…

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